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Sanatarium

Raid on Tuesday 7/25

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In light of the shit show that was this weeks raids and in the best interest of getting some shit done, we're going in with the current 8 strongest players with the buffs, debuffs and utility we need.  I've spoken at length with multiple people on the best way to approach this.  I apologize if peoples feelings get hurt or people are disappointed, it's nothing personal, I like you all.  After progression there are some of us willing to go back and attempt to re-clear for others, and some that are not.  That's their personal decision, it is what it is.  Currently a lot of people's DPS is too low to be carried as a 4 man on anything past V1, but there's no reason we can't go in and learn the fight while people work on gear and rotations.  If people are willing, we may be able to rotate 1 or 2 people in at a time to get pages without a chest.

 

That being said I believe our best shot at clearing Ov3S and beyond is:

 

Tanks:  Lat(Pld) and Myself(War/Drk)

DPS:  Ufa(Sam), Grizz(Bard), Rhuka(Nin) and Fakes(Rdm)

Heals: Alia(Ast) and Poon(Whm)

 

Again I apologize to those not in this weeks "main" group.  The raid sizes in the game are what they are and by nature you need to do X amount of damage or nothing dies.  This is the temporary solution I've come up with until we can either recruit more for a second group, or people improve their dps and can rotate in.  The rest of you are free to form a group, pug, wait for 1 chest clears, do whatever you want obviously.  We recruited Shayvana for the RDM slot, but hes currently not 70 nor do we know where he's at DPS wise.  He'll most likely be in that slot the following week as that's what he was recruited for.  Depending on availability Fakes may slide into the heal slot, but for sure we need someone who can consistently make all 3 nights for the second healer slot.

 

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Posted (edited)

:)

Edited by Fuhma

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Whos left without and have to pug or form own group?

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Hmm...so regardless of how I do as Red Mage...I'm out...gotcha...

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There's nothing stopping people from pugging or making their own static if they don't like the setup.  The RDM we recruited specifically rolled RDM because we asked him to, to fill a spot in our 4 man group when we had 2 groups going.  The other group had at least 7 people and fell apart in one week, that's not on me.  I had 4 people in one group counting on me to fill the other 4 spots permanently asap.  I'm not going to just dismiss him because everyone else decided to change roles and not raid together.  Rhuka also did us a huge favor and server transferred to fill another one of the spots to get the second group going.  He sold his house and had to work miracles to transfer his money and shit over just to join us.  The raid size is 8 people and based on dps, gear, buffs, debuffs, and current skill level in FF14 I put the best 8 man together I could for this week and beyond. The new guys deserve their shot for doing us a solid.  

 

I'd love to put everyone into one group, but the reality is I can't.  The loot system, role requirements, dps checks, and heavy personal raid responsibility also make it exceedingly difficult to go back and carry 4 people on the easier bosses for 1 chest.  That was proven over the past few nights where we wiped over and over and over and over with no measurable progression on O2S.  So yes, some people are currently out of the main group.

 

Before Stormblood half the people playing currently weren't even going to play FF14.  The raid team was pretty much set and then everyone comes over from RO and the raid roster is overfull and I now have to try to set everyone up into 2 groups.  That worked out like total dog shit and sucked for both groups.  I can't make everyone happy, that's pretty clear now. I gave you guys an almost full raid group of people that have raided together for ages to try to accommodate everyone. You only had to pug one slot. After 1 week the group imploded, no one wanted to play with each other, and everyone is swapping roles and shit. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with that.  If Ufa decides he wants to tank tomorrow there's no spot in the group for him either.  It the same for everyone, in every role.  

 

It was a mess for us week one as well. I put myself in the group I considered to have the shit end of the stick. The difference is we figured it out as a group and made shit happen. We pugged 4 people, started 3 hours late on night 1, missed a raid night, and still cleared 2 bosses. Lat, Ufa and Myself have raided together in FF14 since we started playing and I don't have any interest in breaking that up. We work well together and enjoy raiding with each other.  We don't find it enjoyable to go back and wipe 60 times at 65% 2-3 nights in a row on a boss we cleared in <20 pulls with 4 pugs who didn't even join mumble.  Why would we add that to our regular raid night?

 

I've noticed people seem to feel entitled to being in the group while they're doing shit dps or fucking up the same mechanics over and over. That's not the raid team I wanted to make here. You can't kill bosses in this game like that. It is what it is.  People need to sort their shit out. The raid isn't large enough to drag people through and you can't over gear it while its current content, period.  Its 8 people all pulling their weight or you all die.  From what I've seen not everyone is able to do that at this time and at least 4 of us want to progress at a faster rate.  Like I said, you guys are welcome to start your own raid team if you don't like how this one is run.  I'm sure there are more than enough people I'm excluding from the group and shunning to whip up something spectacular.  

 

Here's a list of everyone I'm now expected to fit into into one 8 man group, pick 8 that have any shot whatsoever of clearing O4S by Thursday.  Also include everyone, and line up 4/4 splits for everyone to get at least 1 chest after the main clear.  Now leave time for progression and make the 4/4 splits actually capable of killing any of the bosses at all.  Pick buffs and classes that compliment each other and people whose gear drops don't overlap.  Separate the people that don't want to raid together, but again, include everyone. Keep in mind any one of these people can change their class and role at any time and you're expected to cater to that. Last magically turn all 14 of these people into happy raiders all on the same page.

 

1. Nav (Pld/Rdm)

2. Nano (Tanks)

3. Lat (Tanks)

4. Metal (Tanks)

5. Ufa (Sam)

6. Mali (Drg)

7. Grizz (Brd)

8. Fakes (Heals/Rdm)

9. Fuhma (Smn)

10. Rhuka (Nin)

11. Shy (Rdm)

12. Orestes (Drg)

13. Poon (Whm)

14. Alia (Healers)

 

 

 

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So many things wrong with that post.  I understand the people that have been here and playing with who you want and set up a group to succeed, but your the "leader" of the FFXIV Drow team.  There's no hey, next week we will replace this person with x and have you sit this week or anything like that.  No "we will get you in on this boss this week" or any future plans on what to do.  Its basically go fuck yourself and pug it, I don't want to deal with it.  There's no one entitled to be in the "main" group, but to basically tell everyone else sorry didn't make the cut, go figure it out yourself and officers dont care is wrong and given up on getting a 2nd group being formed/recruited.  And its cause last week's group wasn't up to your standards.  

And to making own raid team thing, that is why i said "go fuck yourself" comment up above.  You expect non-officers to go and form up raid groups to do content.  To recruit and get a raid group formed.  Hell, my rank is the fucken bottom and not even "raider" rank because of a joke.  I personally don't expect to get a spot in the main group, I am late to the leveling party and although have busted my ass to get gear and get better at the game so can help out when needed but this shows don't expect help.  I did expect to play with people and do content and even if its not clear in 10 pulls, its still doing content with guild and getting better as a guild overall.  But thats just me.

There's only 4 people from RO team that came here because Nano has been in FFXIV playing with you and only 1 RO member is playing in the Main group.  And as I recall, you guys still had trouble filling 8 spots in heavensward.  And even than, asked, when you going to play FFXIV?  

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Posted (edited)

So everyone knows Grizz here and can take what he says with a little less salt... So Ore only reason you never got considered for main group was your BDO raid times conflicting on top  of your class and time it took to level/gear. Now let's talk about current possibilites for the 2nd group because this was my worry that people would get upset and I didn't want to be looked at as one of the bad guys. Last night was a perfect example of sometimes people don't show up and others can and need to be brought in. Fuhma wasn't chosen for the "Main Group" but he was on and geared ready to go when called. So the point I wanna make is we need more then just 8 people for times when we are in a pinch like Rhuka being late. We cleared Turn 1-2 but it wasn't without its issues. Are DPS was still very low compared to most comps mine included. This game has some very hard Dps checks and they are just there to gate and seperate the good from the bad. No one person can make up for another's Dps just because it's hard enough to maintain and do there own minimum required Dps while doing the mechanics with current gear. Obviously each week eveything gets a little easier with gear creep and that will make it possible to carry 1-2 more under geared or performing members. I also know you guys don't wanna feel like you are being carried. So here's what I hope we can do and turn this all around to something positive. The 4-5 people who dont get in the first clears. If you are willing to wait till off raid times. There's 3-4 of us I know for a fact in the main group that are down to do 1 chest clears so you can get practice and work while also getting some gear but making sure it stays in guild witch pugging people gambles loot to be lost. This way we can point out and help you guys on the fights while also being able to point out what areas need to be improved on in a less critical way. Eventually time and practice your performance will be there and you can be brought into main group 2 chest clears. So first thing you can do to figure out if you can do this content is go hit a dummy and do a 5 minute parse and make sure you can even perform your rotation and sustain a minimum dps required for these encounters. Turn 1 requires 19k raid Dps Turn 2 requires 21k so at minimum Dps should maintain 3.5k for 1 and 2 then we get to Turn 3 what we are currently trying to start prog on 24k raid Dps required for 11 minute fight. I know I barely meet the dps requirement for it and still need to practice my Dps and rotation to not hold the group back. Turn 3-4 is gonna require 3.7-4k sustained for the Dps depending on class higher for others. Hopefully this puts some perspective to all this. 

Edited by Grizz
Stupid phone can't type....

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This game is very unforgiving especially when in progression fights. I understand that my SMN is not the strongest class right now because of SE. They rebuilt it in a very strange way and don't seem to realize it's current impact on teams. So I am leveling BLM and will learn the rotation to better help anyone I join in the guild to do content with. On top of that, I still die a bunch on the current Savage runs but I'm doing my best to commit those mistakes into memory to get better. If I'm not chosen in the "main group" that's fine with me. For the simple fact that if I'm a burden on those performing mechanics well and just enough damage to take the boss down, I don't want to hold them back. They don't have enough gear that will enable them to do enough damage to give a buffer for 1 or 2 deaths during a savage run. They are doing this not to single people out for being poor or to be first for some reason. It's to be able to make their characters strong enough to help others through the content more effectively.

 

Not everyone learns at the same rate nor do they have the same level of skill. That is not a slight to any person here. They are looking at things in the most objective way possible to help everyone. Metal showed this in his last paragraph before the list he posted. Those are most likely some of the things he and others were keeping in mind to try and help everyone as best we can currently. When he mentioned you can pug 4 spots it wasn't a "fuck you" go fend for yourself. It was more of a "you don't have to wait for us". We can still gain experience with the fights without them. Once I finish my BLM I should do better dps to help with another group that I'm in. 

 

Nobody here has said nor implied that he or she isn't worth playing this game alongside. If that was something was felt, we have to look inward and be honest with ourselves as to the reason why we're feeling the way we feel. I honestly felt bad at first but after I spoke with Grizz and the other guys I realized what I had to do to help not only myself but the rest of the guild with my character. So I'd like to ask everyone, what would you do in his shoes to help everyone out and what would you do now with your own character to help everyone out in the best way possible. 

 

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yay outside point of view time!!!

 

from my view those that are talking are wanting hardcore raiding. in my view if you wanna be a hardcore raider from experience, you need a few things.

 

1. accepting the comitment.

2. being on time and there for whole raid.

3. doing research and being the best class that is needed.

4. doing all you can to have best gear possible at the time.

5. getting you conssumables

6. playing at needed standerds.

 

now if you cant accpept those dosent mean ye cant raid, i just means ye prolly cant hardcore raid ("Which imo takes alot of fun out"). because your mindset dosent match theirs.

i think the best alternitave is to find people to "Casucore raid" IE we want to progress while trying to fit it around our lives and how we want to play.

 

i think this has been managed somewhat well with the wow flunkies who came over. but this is just my opinion.

 

and the best way to solve any problem...... Talk it out calmly while stating your side and stating what you think the other sides view is. sometimes you can be argueing about the same thing but using words that have different meanings to each person so it seems different.

 

again this iss from an outside viewpoint and all opinions. but i just wanna try to help :)

 

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My thoughts are, I'm new, I'll get my time eventually. I don't care what group I am in. I just didn't like seeing that a Red Mage who is "currently not 70 nor do we know where he's at DPS wise" already gets a spot without considering anyone else or even considering whether his dps sucks. To me, just seemed a cliquish thing to say is all not to mention said after it was stated we need the best players. Not 70 and not knowing someone's dps is not what I consider "best player".  Maybe Shayvana is a great fuckin player no matter what he plays. I have known people like that, however, that's not how it came across. On that note, new doesn't mean bad player. I guarantee I will be a top tier red mage whether I am raiding with or without the "A-Team". I am not a "gotta have it now" kinda player. This game is not hard, getting in a pug run is easy. I may not be the first person to kill something, but I am going to kill it. 

 

Now enough about me. 

 

A guild cannot have a hardcore/ softcore mentality. It never works. If you want to be hardcore, then be hardcore and to hell with those who can't cut it. Just be prepared to have people pissed off. Who cares, you're hardcore. I've been there and I get it. If you want to be softcore, then be softcore and work at downing stuff together not caring if you wipe 100 times over. The best way to meet DPS checks, aside from caring enough to get better, is to practice the boss. When I first started dpsing, I sucked at certain fights, but as I got to know the fight, the less I had to struggle with dps. With that in mind, I understand those who know the game, their classes, mechanics, etc.. better than most can get impatient at not downing content. So down your content then help others. The problem with people like that is because they have done it over and over and no longer need anything, they don't help anyone either, unless it benefits them somehow. I have seen it with my own eyes in my short time with this game. Again, hardcore mentality, which is fine, just don't lie to yourselves and others about it. Embrace the hardcore. I am hardcore myself, but I am more patient than most hardcore people.

 

Final Fantasy is easy to pug raid content. It's not like other games that you have to be in a guild to down content. The fact of the matter is, people like raiding with specific people. There is nothing wrong with that. All you have to do is PUG a run to get better just in case that team needs someone. When they finally need you, you have the choice to run with them or not just as they have the right to not let you in their runs immediately. All I would ask is be consistent. Me personally, I would rather you tell me I suck or that someone is better then me instead of making excuses. I also understand not all are as thick skinned as me.

 

Ufa is an ass and everyone knows it, but at least he's honest. If you can't handle the truth, don't ask the questions. The same goes for not being selected for the A-Team. Move on, wait your turn, and down content or just move on and down content with a pug and embarrass the "A-Team". 

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Posted (edited)

Fuck it il throw my 2 cents in since some people only see what they want to.

Some people dont like playing together its that simple. Some people WILL NOT mesh well in the raid team Metal has right now. I am the most vocal in the raid and trust me i call it all out and i know after the year straight of raiding with the wildstar team that some people will not fit the group regardless or class or dps. 

Now for shy being brought in? he joined our raid group when it was 2 split groups. We also had Rhuka join to fill a spot we needed. They arent getting benched before they get a shot because the other group imploded because pugging one was too difficult.

People arent happy they didnt make metals team. Thats fine but why werent you picked? is it because of the class you play, Because your understanding of the class or because you just arent good at FFXIV. Some people are because of reason 1 others of 2 and others of 3 but fuck me some are all the above.

This isnt wildstar you will never overgear current content. Gear doesnt stop a 1 shot in this game. Its that simple.

We set groups for week 1 so that the newer group would have a shot at v1. But people then spoke up saying they dont like raiding with one person or another. Then the raid went shit nothing died and people want in on our group after we already started recruiting.

4 of us arent happy wiping for hours with 0 progression so we made another group instead of sitting 4 people every week. We had permission from Core to split the teams so we did. Everyone who just wanted to raid was put in group 1 and Alia, Lat, Metal and myself made group 2 and started finding people to fill it out with the classes we wanted.

Some people seem to think that they can just coast through because the content is easy. Sure it is but at the current level of some people that easy content is still miles ahead of where they are at.

1 hour ago, Nav said:

Ufa is an ass and everyone knows it, but at least he's honest. If you can't handle the truth, don't ask the questions

Pretty much this. We played nice for week 1 and gave ourselves the shit end of the stick yet people keep pushing the fucking button thinking they have some right to a raid spot. This sint WoW or W* this is FFXIV if you arent good enough at FFXIV i dont want you om our raid group. Does that hurt peoples feelings? No idea i think it seems pretty damn straight forward and fair.

Edited by Ufalicious

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All of what Ufa said sounds legit to me. I have no idea what category I fit in to or who he was talking about specifically, but if it's me, that's fine. I know I'm good and it started long before Wildstar. I just haven't had a chance to prove it in FFXIV. I know my place. I never expected to be in Metal's group nor did I want to be at this moment so I know that part can't be me. I mentioned the Red Mage situation because the initial Metal Post didn't make sense to me and not really because it directly reflected me, although it seems so. Just thought it was weird saying they wanna bring the best, but then say they were bringing someone not knowing if they are good at dps. It really had nothing to do with me personally I just wanted someone to make sense of the situation. I already know I'm not good in FFXIV yet. I hope I am not one of the ones you guys don't like playing with though. If you guys are, then Mali and I can find someplace else to go. It doesn't really bother us. We're not attached to anyone anyhow, but we can discuss that in game or mumble. I have come to play FFXIV because we liked some of the people we raided with in Wildstar on a personality level. I have no unrealistic expectations of raiding with them just because I did in Wildstar. There are Wildstar players I thought were horrible too.

 

See you all in game. 

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1 hour ago, Nav said:

All of what Ufa said sounds legit to me. I have no idea what category I fit in to or who he was talking about specifically, but if it's me, that's fine. I know I'm good and it started long before Wildstar. I just haven't had a chance to prove it in FFXIV. I know my place. I never expected to be in Metal's group nor did I want to be at this moment so I know that part can't be me. I mentioned the Red Mage situation because the initial Metal Post didn't make sense to me and not really because it directly reflected me, although it seems so. Just thought it was weird saying they wanna bring the best, but then say they were bringing someone not knowing if they are good at dps. It really had nothing to do with me personally I just wanted someone to make sense of the situation. I already know I'm not good in FFXIV yet. I hope I am not one of the ones you guys don't like playing with though. If you guys are, then Mali and I can find someplace else to go. It doesn't really bother us. We're not attached to anyone anyhow, but we can discuss that in game or mumble. I have come to play FFXIV because we liked some of the people we raided with in Wildstar on a personality level. I have no unrealistic expectations of raiding with them just because I did in Wildstar. There are Wildstar players I thought were horrible too.

 

See you all in game. 

Nav, I can say with confidence, that as a person, nobody dislikes you or your wife. Period. You and Mali are awesome and we all love you. Gameplay issues can be worked out. Thinking people don't like you and don't wanna play with you is kind of goofy though. :x

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Posted (edited)

I'm not trying to single anyone out, those are just the overall issues going on right now.  There are a lot of factors going on that make forming a team in this game a fucking nightmare.  Certainly I came off as a dickhead I'm sure, but I like everyone currently playing FF14, even that kiwi fuck Ufa.  There is actually no one I've run into in all of Drow that I actively want to avoid to be honest.  In the end it's just a game after all, the people are the important part.  I wish the raid size was bigger and allowed more wiggle room for class duplicates, that would help a lot in and of itself.  The class balance this x-pack seems pretty good, but there are GLARING outsiders to that as well and thats not helping.

 

I've been discussing rolling an alt, like as in a completely new character and all the main story quest bullshit that comes with it, just to raid again with others I enjoy playing with and keep the loot availability for them too.  I'm thinking of doing a bard, but we'll see.  Obviously that would be an off-night thing but that's really all I can personally offer to help fix some of whats going on.

Edited by Sanatarium

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Posted (edited)

You're doing fine. I've been in your shoes many times. I don't envy you at all.  AC is consistently trying to encourage Mali and I to take over a team or be a leader in any game. One of the reasons we don't want to do it anymore is because of what you are going through right now. The only advice I can give is keep doing what you're doing and know that no matter how hard you work at it, you will never make everyone happy. So do what makes you happy and if people wanna jump on board, they will. It's kinda like that asshole raid leader. Everyone hates him but they stay with him because he's good at raid leading and content dies. 

 

Edited by Nav

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